Thank you so much for sharing all of this in detail, Jonathon. It is very concerning. And after what happened to so many of us today/in recent days with the attack bots, my fears are growing about how safe we actually are here.
I have had a bad vibe since it seems they baited writers to come here for the contemplative space away from 'social media' and then they hurried in ALL the social medias. With that amount of massive growth in a split second, they had to know it was going to usher in serious issues for all of us.
Exactly. I know it's small, but going through this bot mess brought me to your work and I'm so happy it did. Fellow (former/finding her way back?) Christian and recovering alcoholic here. Thank you for what you do. God works in mysterious ways.
Thank you for writing this. It’s very concerning and though I’m a newer user with a small publication, I have noticed odd things as well. I’m well acquainted with start up culture and I agree that they are likely in a hard push to grow numbers now. I also suspect they are incorporating AI, which takes time to optimize. My gut says that the email upload delay sounds like an AI response waiting for human eyes to verify and complete the task. I move or get and I really hope that Substack takes notice and corrects the course.
Thank you for sharing. I began as a "free" subscriber to your list and converted over to "paid". After I converted to "paid" I then began receiving duplicate emails - one for paid one for free - to the same email address. As a subscriber, I was disappointed that my status didn't convert and instead created an additional subscriber. I was initially hesitant to delete the "free" membership, fearing that I would lose what I paid for. I finally did delete the free membership and am still receiving emails, etc. under the paid membership, but maybe this is another "kink" that needs to be worked out?
Bots is a huge problem and curation of large lists is another huge problem. Substack does not consider your subscribers to be "yours." They are part of the Substack social network and happen to be networked in to you also. If you want your own subscribers you have to leave Substack, full stop. They control the lists, and they curate and manage to reduce bots. Sometimes that messes with sub counts (of course it does). Substack is a social media platform in long form, not a writing platform for authors. When you make the mental jump to that framework, what's happening makes sense. By importing email addresses, you are helping Substack, and only tangentally, yourself. It might be best to leave.
Seriously, there are thousands of web hosts and options. Use a CMS like Ghost, Beehiiv, Webflow + Memberstack / Outseta, or good old Wordpress with lots of plugins. You don’t have to use Substack. I use it because frankly I’m lazy. But I used to use other services and self-host. It’s just a bit more time consuming, however you get full control.
If you’re not serious about content as a business model, it’s not worth the time. But if you are serious, it is almost inevitable. The Dispatch left Substack. The Free Press and Matt Taibbi stayed but only because Substack treats them like royalty. Others who are “bestsellers” but not royalty eventually have to decide between ownership and control versus financial incentives and ease of use. However Substack makes no guarantees they won’t bite you later.
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Second question. If you do that and someone actually unsubscribes from your Substack, then you later contact them, are you afoul of some obscure spam law?
I’m not anywhere near a bestseller here, but I have been having issues with daily unsubscribes and new subscribers have fallen off a cliff whereas a month ago, I would get 1-3 per day. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one this is happening to.
I had 1500 subscribers dropped on the 29th of March. When I emailed support they said it was my fault, that I must have done something on the backend, but the more digging I did, the more I realized it wasn’t. It’s done. There’s nothing I can do about it, but it was a bummer for sure.
Wow 😮 I had no idea. So thank you for shining a light on this and their lack of customer support. Regardless of the size of the page, it’s the readers and writers that bring in their earnings, so they need to have a team that is servicing them well. I’m so sorry this happened to your subscriber list. But don’t go… you’re such a light in this space!!!!
Thanks a bunch for sharing your thoughts and experiences, Jonathon. (Your chat message in WaW brought me here). I've also worked in start-up world, and it does feel like they're pushing toward an acquisition. Which I understand and don't mind exactly (I'm a capitalism fan myself), but for the sake of not ruining something that was so lovely, it makes me sad. The lack of transparency is especially concerning.
Makes me want to write a letter starting with "Dear Substack brass, we can handle the truth, just please be upfront, and listen to your users so the thing you built ends up being something you remain really proud of..."
Maybe I will! I'm small fish to them, but I'm sure I represent a lot of small fish who unexpectedly and eventually grew here before these changes. If you left, where would you go? Does a significant part of your growth come from off-Substack sources? That intrigues me...
I think if enough small fish start swimming together, it will show there's a bigger "school" of us that believe Substack is losing its way and not serving those it purports to serve.
I get a lot of subscribers from a FB ad and my website. However, I can't deny that the subscribers I get from the SS network is nice. And that's probably why I haven't left quite yet...and am still debating. I know a lot of people on here have started to go over to ConvertKit, so I started looking into them today. We'll see. 🤷♂️ My hope, though, is that SS gets its act together and I won't have to....
Thanks a bunch for sharing what you're doing. I moved here from ConvertKit a year ago and have doubled my net subscribers. By serious preference, I have rather quit all other social media/don't have a lot of traffic to my site since SS is my main place. It's still good for me to stay here, but it's good to remember to not put all the eggs in one basket, and to cultivate other ways of list building...
I will say that like you, I love Substack. I started in June 2024, and though my numbers aren't as big as yours, my subscriber list has gotten 5 times larger in this time. Yay!
AND - i had a maddening experience with Substack support as well! I will not go into the boring details, except to say that I was trying to delete an account I had created accidentally - before I realized you could simply have more than one publication under the same account. They kept telling me the account did not exist! Even when I showed them screen shots of it.
then after going 13 rounds of 'yes it is, no it isn't', they would say: well, can you give us a screenshot?? and I would, and then crickets.
Here's what I think: their support is fully AI. we're not talking with humans at all. and there are a lot of errors in communication and understanding.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I had never thought about your AI theory. I guess that's possible! But the responses to my questions don't read like AI to me. But that could just mean it's really good AI!
Thank you so much for sharing all of this in detail, Jonathon. It is very concerning. And after what happened to so many of us today/in recent days with the attack bots, my fears are growing about how safe we actually are here.
I have had a bad vibe since it seems they baited writers to come here for the contemplative space away from 'social media' and then they hurried in ALL the social medias. With that amount of massive growth in a split second, they had to know it was going to usher in serious issues for all of us.
Absolutely concerning! A blog post at least ACKNOWLEDGING some of the issues and explaining what's being done would go a long way.
Exactly. I know it's small, but going through this bot mess brought me to your work and I'm so happy it did. Fellow (former/finding her way back?) Christian and recovering alcoholic here. Thank you for what you do. God works in mysterious ways.
I’d love to possibly have you on my podcast! I interview people about their recovery journeys. Especially in a faith context.
I would love that!
Let’s know where would you go
I have the same question. Where would “we” go for a substack-like experience off of Substack?
Thank you for writing this. It’s very concerning and though I’m a newer user with a small publication, I have noticed odd things as well. I’m well acquainted with start up culture and I agree that they are likely in a hard push to grow numbers now. I also suspect they are incorporating AI, which takes time to optimize. My gut says that the email upload delay sounds like an AI response waiting for human eyes to verify and complete the task. I move or get and I really hope that Substack takes notice and corrects the course.
Ouch. Thank you for these insights. It’s good to know.
Thank you for sharing. I began as a "free" subscriber to your list and converted over to "paid". After I converted to "paid" I then began receiving duplicate emails - one for paid one for free - to the same email address. As a subscriber, I was disappointed that my status didn't convert and instead created an additional subscriber. I was initially hesitant to delete the "free" membership, fearing that I would lose what I paid for. I finally did delete the free membership and am still receiving emails, etc. under the paid membership, but maybe this is another "kink" that needs to be worked out?
Bots is a huge problem and curation of large lists is another huge problem. Substack does not consider your subscribers to be "yours." They are part of the Substack social network and happen to be networked in to you also. If you want your own subscribers you have to leave Substack, full stop. They control the lists, and they curate and manage to reduce bots. Sometimes that messes with sub counts (of course it does). Substack is a social media platform in long form, not a writing platform for authors. When you make the mental jump to that framework, what's happening makes sense. By importing email addresses, you are helping Substack, and only tangentally, yourself. It might be best to leave.
That's a tough pill to swallow, but I do think there's truth there.
Look into CMS options. There’s plenty to choose from.
OK.
And go … where?
Seriously.
Medium? (ha! They censor “non-compliant words”).
What are our options?
Seriously, there are thousands of web hosts and options. Use a CMS like Ghost, Beehiiv, Webflow + Memberstack / Outseta, or good old Wordpress with lots of plugins. You don’t have to use Substack. I use it because frankly I’m lazy. But I used to use other services and self-host. It’s just a bit more time consuming, however you get full control.
Did that. You’re right—time consuming and expensive.
If you’re not serious about content as a business model, it’s not worth the time. But if you are serious, it is almost inevitable. The Dispatch left Substack. The Free Press and Matt Taibbi stayed but only because Substack treats them like royalty. Others who are “bestsellers” but not royalty eventually have to decide between ownership and control versus financial incentives and ease of use. However Substack makes no guarantees they won’t bite you later.
Thx.
So, do you recommend exporting your email list often as a backup?
I do now!
I was thinking exactly the same thing. Second question. If you do that and someone actually unsubscribes from your Substack, then you later contact them, are you afoul of some obscure spam law?
I'd suggest researching that. I'm unsure exactly.
I’m not anywhere near a bestseller here, but I have been having issues with daily unsubscribes and new subscribers have fallen off a cliff whereas a month ago, I would get 1-3 per day. It’s nice to know I’m not the only one this is happening to.
Yikes, this is concerning! Thanks for sharing.
I had 1500 subscribers dropped on the 29th of March. When I emailed support they said it was my fault, that I must have done something on the backend, but the more digging I did, the more I realized it wasn’t. It’s done. There’s nothing I can do about it, but it was a bummer for sure.
Woah! I don't even have 1500 subscribers total (yet), so that's a real blow to your list.
Wow 😮 I had no idea. So thank you for shining a light on this and their lack of customer support. Regardless of the size of the page, it’s the readers and writers that bring in their earnings, so they need to have a team that is servicing them well. I’m so sorry this happened to your subscriber list. But don’t go… you’re such a light in this space!!!!
Thanks a bunch for sharing your thoughts and experiences, Jonathon. (Your chat message in WaW brought me here). I've also worked in start-up world, and it does feel like they're pushing toward an acquisition. Which I understand and don't mind exactly (I'm a capitalism fan myself), but for the sake of not ruining something that was so lovely, it makes me sad. The lack of transparency is especially concerning.
Makes me want to write a letter starting with "Dear Substack brass, we can handle the truth, just please be upfront, and listen to your users so the thing you built ends up being something you remain really proud of..."
Please write that open letter!!!!
Maybe I will! I'm small fish to them, but I'm sure I represent a lot of small fish who unexpectedly and eventually grew here before these changes. If you left, where would you go? Does a significant part of your growth come from off-Substack sources? That intrigues me...
I think if enough small fish start swimming together, it will show there's a bigger "school" of us that believe Substack is losing its way and not serving those it purports to serve.
I get a lot of subscribers from a FB ad and my website. However, I can't deny that the subscribers I get from the SS network is nice. And that's probably why I haven't left quite yet...and am still debating. I know a lot of people on here have started to go over to ConvertKit, so I started looking into them today. We'll see. 🤷♂️ My hope, though, is that SS gets its act together and I won't have to....
Thanks a bunch for sharing what you're doing. I moved here from ConvertKit a year ago and have doubled my net subscribers. By serious preference, I have rather quit all other social media/don't have a lot of traffic to my site since SS is my main place. It's still good for me to stay here, but it's good to remember to not put all the eggs in one basket, and to cultivate other ways of list building...
I think that’s the lesson for me as well.
I will say that like you, I love Substack. I started in June 2024, and though my numbers aren't as big as yours, my subscriber list has gotten 5 times larger in this time. Yay!
AND - i had a maddening experience with Substack support as well! I will not go into the boring details, except to say that I was trying to delete an account I had created accidentally - before I realized you could simply have more than one publication under the same account. They kept telling me the account did not exist! Even when I showed them screen shots of it.
then after going 13 rounds of 'yes it is, no it isn't', they would say: well, can you give us a screenshot?? and I would, and then crickets.
Here's what I think: their support is fully AI. we're not talking with humans at all. and there are a lot of errors in communication and understanding.
Thanks for sharing your experience! I had never thought about your AI theory. I guess that's possible! But the responses to my questions don't read like AI to me. But that could just mean it's really good AI!
i could be wrong, too! at the very least, i think their back end functioning is not yet keeping up with their huge success.
for which i do grant them grace (and gratitude!), but for sure feel the frustration as well
Thanks so much for bringing this topic into the light 🙏🏼
Wow, that’s concerning for sure. I’ve been backing up my subscriber list, just in case.
How do you do that?
Under the graph in "subscribers" there are three dots. You can select to "export" your list there.
This is why I back-up every subscriber I get here and make sure they are kept safe. Thanks for sharing this dude!
How do I do that?